Since a simple commentary on someone being on "Millionaire" has digresses into a discussion about the library, let me enlighten some of you.
Yes, the library was a gift. A VERY generous gift. Not once but twice. The current GL Historical society is housed in the old library. (Before that it was in the city hall offices with about 4 book shelves.)
Officially the City of Green Lake owns the library. It is of course used by many more people than the city residents and the Town of Brooklyn does contribute part of the operating budget for day to day things.(Which it is not legally required to do) Maintenance of the building is legally part of the city because the city owns the building. We all know where city budgets stand right now. The cost of a new roof(which despite what all of you out there may think have a life span of about 15-20 years, read the fine print on your roofing contract...)is more than an annual budget of operating the library for a year. This town is very lucky to have this library. We are the envy of surrounding communities for our library facilities. But...it needs to be maintained. The city cannot afford this by itself. The library is trying to think ahead and get the funds to replace the roof before it becomes a critical issue. Stop bitching about your taxes, poor planning and what is wrong with everybody else approach and understand they are trying to plan ahead. Or are you just like a bunch of spoiled kids who are unable to take care of the gifts given to them now complain because they want someone else to give them more. Municipal funds are not going to be able to cover all the costs. Period.
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12 years ago
51 comments:
Wow. You're ordering people to stop bitching about taxes and money? Only dmark's topped that insensitivity and ignorance on this blog so far. Wow. Wow. Wow.
Dear Chief...your assertions make no sense whatsoever. I'm sorry but, a city building is a city building is a city building.
If a municipality OWNS the building, then THEY (our dubious mayor, and city council) should have been the ones' setting aside funding for 'buildings / grounds / maintenance'. If this goes back years (which would seem to be the case) then our present group in charge, as well as many prior players, need to be held accountable.
How poor a job of advanced planning it is when a wonderful facility, like the Caestecker Public Library, is given to the city (at no cost, no expense, no strings attached) and the city can't afford / doesn't see fit to keep it maintained. What a slap in the face to the benefactor who saw fit to 'give' something wonderful only to see it fall into disrepair because those entrusted with the gift don't want to maintain it!!
This is more than sad and says volumes about those in charge of this city and it's buildings!
Who pays to maintain the other Green Lake city buildings? Who pays for maintenance and repairs on the Berlin library, the Princeton library, the Ripon library, etc??? How are the budgets determined that they don't even allow the GL library to meet its annual operating expenses.
Something is terribly wrong with this situation and there are questions that need to be answered.
I still say that 16 years is a very short life span for roof on a commercial building. There are many buildings that are 60-100 years old that have never needed roofing. You can't compare it to a house roof. Commercial roofing should last for many decades with only periodical repairs. Like I said before rip off con job!
The City has maintained the Library through its budget since it was given to the City. The City and the Town of Brooklyn have agreed to put away $10,000 per year into reserves for three years for the new steel roof, which the Library requested. The Library also wanted to contribute to the roof with their own fundraising efforts. The current roof is being maintained until there is enough money to replace the roof. The City is putting on something to melt snow near the gutters so the ice backup does not occur. New inside lighting is also being replaced since the Library has issues with them. The City and Town are now working on an agreement to fund maintainence since Town usage is about double GL residents.
I would hope the City could maintain the $10,000 per year reserves on an on-going basis to build up funds. I am recommending that we do. This is all being done with the desire to not raise our mill rate for City residents. We are trying to be prudent with spending during these tough times.
Good Info...thanks Donna
Thanks for elaborating Donna.
Our question is why spend $80,000 for a boat launch and park? The boat launch is only used 6 months and rarely full. And a park?? There is a nice BIG one just a block away. Seems to me the City needs other things more than that.
WOuld like to know who is "pushing" this.
Donna rocks! I wish she were president. I bet she would send the troops to Afghanistan that we need to defeat the Taliban and not sit around playing politics and waiting to shove through a health care bill that the American public does not want and will cost us ALL more than we are paying now and for less services. At least Donna has common sense and morals. Thank you Donna.
I have seen a number of public buildings in our country that have required outside fundraising to do repair and maintenance in our country. That has included museums, statues,libraries, art institutes, just to name a few.
I don't get what the big deal is.
The library we all enjoy and use for free needs a new roof. Sounds like the city can put some money to it, but not all and the community is being asked to support the effort. I am okay with that. We do have a wonderful library, not all communities have what we have. Just drive a few miles west and look at the Princeton Library. No disrespect, just saying we are blessed with a nice library, and it needs some work, so maybe we could get further along if we focused on getting the job done, than if we spent our time complaining about it. I guess if you don't want to contribute, then don't. It's a free country. I plan to contribute and would be glad to help them raise money, because I think the library in Green Lake is such a good thing for everyone.
The Canal Street launch needs additional parking. The Park and Recreation Board has been saving room tax money for years to buy this land. There is a desire to move some of the boat traffic and parking around the Deacon Mills launch on Park Avenue to the Canal Street launch. This Board is looking at the future of Green Lake since we only have two launchs within the City and there is a desire to bring more people into Green Lake. Room tax money cannot be used for items like a new library roof by law. That must come from the general funds.
The new TIF is going to save the court house, finance the grocery bag project,and pay $85,000 for the Canal St. boat launch. Did the City get some bailout money?
The money for the Canal Street effort is from room tax money already saved by Park & Rec. The TIF gives a loan to developers that is paid back from their project's property taxes over a period of years. The old grocery bag project will receive $250,000 from the City's TIF. That is what I know at this time. Not sure where the prior poster got his or her information.
It would be great to have the Court house developed so our City does not have a "white elephant" for many years to come with no one paying property taxes on the building.
I didn't hear anyone bitch about taxes here, Chief. If some of my taxes went to the library roof, I would be fine with that. I would rather my taxes went to a new roof for the library than say planting a huge expanse of grass by the tennis courts that never grew because if was planted in sand and never watered. (Or was that FEMA money that was wasted?) Or paying $30 per hour for professional gardeners to tend the parks when the community service people could easily dead-head the black-eyed Susans or pull a few weeds. The school is talking about a referendum for a new roof to the tune of a half million dollars or more. They are the ones who should have a fund raiser to pay for their roof! Get out there kids and sell that wrapping paper and peanut brittle. What about the giant red elephant sitting smack dab in the middle of the city, what is going to happen to the courthouse once it is vacated? What is this talk about financing the Grocery Bag project? I don't mind paying taxes for the library roof, there are much bigger problems to worry about. It's a good thing that the City and the Town have finally resolved all their relationship problems (yeah, right) so we can have smooth sailing from now on.
I think that expanding the boat landing is a great idea. Green Lake is a primo fishing destination in Wisconsin! However, the bridge that the boats travel under to get to the lake from the pond seems problematic to me. I wouldn't want to navigate an expensive boat through that small space. I suppose most boaters don't have a problem with it. Something to think about for the long term plan.
Regarding the library, it seems that both the city and the town are hoping that Daddy Bigbucks will open his checkbook and write a big, fat check. I am glad that that money is being set aside for the new roof, but almost seems like an afterthought. With Cornerstone hoping for financial miracles, the Thrasher counting on donations to survive, we need to keep in mind that the library is a publicly funded entity and that the building belongs to the city. Public buildings should not depend on donations for improvements. It's just not right.
Donna,do you really think that the Giambetti TIF will pay back from increased property value taxes? With this pitiful economy,we'll be lucky if we keep our school.
The City always has a developer agreement that requires repayment either from the property taxes or the developer. We do this to protect our citizens from having to pick up the tab. It is a standard we have followed since Parise was the Mayor.
Update on the Library roof funding! After reviewing their budget, the Town Board approved $2,500 for the roof project in 2010. This occurred at the Joint Meeting between the City and the Town. Until final approval, the City still has $10,000 in their budget for the roof in 2010.
It appears that both the town and the city want something from each other. Maybe a bit of give and take from both sides is in order. Funny how the City does not need to consider certain agreements with the town. Funny how the town does not need to pay as much for certain programs in the city.
What do you think Donna?
As usual, I am confused. In one of Donna's earlier blogs, she states: "The City and the Town of Brooklyn have agreed to put away $10,000 per year into reserves for three years for the new steel roof, which the Library requested."
I took that to mean that both the city and the town would each put away $10,000 per year. Now Ms. Moore (as of yesterday) says: "After reviewing their budget, the Town Board approved $2,500 for the roof project in 2010."
So did the Town of Brooklyn renig on an agreement, or am I reading this incorrectly?
I believe that is extra 2500 that they found somewhere in this years budget.
The explanations are never in enough detail. Things are left out on purpose or not. That's why no one really knows what's going on and they can never figure out what was done on purpose or not. The fact remains that taxpayers never really know where or how they're money is being spent. We do know our personal bank account is shrinking by the minute to pay for the low quality, municipal services need more money from us we don't have. Sigh...
The minutes from the early August meeting with the Town indicates the Town and the City agreed to each put in $10,000 each year for three years. At yesterday's meeting the Town changed their mind and indicated they would put in $2,500 for 2010. That is all the facts I have. If you are interested in the minutes from both meetings, please stop at City Hall and read the minutes for yourself.
I did stop at city hall and read the agenda for the Aug 25 2009 meeting and I find this vary strange that the agenda reads the city was taking no actions where to be done also there is nothing on the agenda about the $10,000.00 for the roof?????? I also pulled up the town agenda of the same meeting and nothing on there about the $ 10,000.00 or the town making any agreement I did learn that the town gave the library 83,177.00 plus 2,500.00 so what gives Donna looks like they stepped up to plate and did what they where to do to support the library I know a little about the open meeting law and you can not act on non agenda items at a public meeting this whole thing donna moore is not getting past the smell test so why don"t You come clean
Why don't you learn how to spell and use punctuation. There's no excuse.
You must read the minutes from the August meeting to see what occured at the meeting. The agenda does not tell the story. The August minutes state the Town agreed to put $10,000 away each year for three years and the City also agreed to do that. The $83,000 figure is one half of the normal library budget. The City also puts in that amount. The Town said yesterday they will put away an extra $2,500 in reserve for the roof funding. The City still has $10,000 in their budget to put into reserves for the roof. Final City budget approval will happen by vote at the City Council regular meeting.
It seems you don't like my message but these are the facts. Check it yourself.
Ok, so, putting the pieces together this is what I get:
***Town has paid $83,000 which is their 'share' of the annual budget.
***Town has put aside $10,000; Plus (??) $2500 for the roof project for a total of $12,500 (Not sure if this is correct but this is what I've garnered).
***City will pay $83,000 for their half of the annual budget.
***City will put aside $10,000 this year, and the next 2 years, for the roof project.
All told, if things stay consistent, in 3 years the library should have approx. $62,500 from city and town funding for the roof. Is this correct?
Town is putting away only $2,500 in roof fund reserves for 2010. Not $12,500. I am not sure the Town is committing to 2011 and 2012. That was not part of their motion at the Library meeting on Tuesday. Sorry if my message was confusing.
This stinks! If the Town of Brooklyn agreed to $10,000 per year, then they should make good on that. Next time, get it in writing! The town is always trying to get away with paying less than their share, the park and rec program for example. If the city and the town can't get along like grown-ups should, then perhaps we need some new elected officials who can handle the job.
The in-writing process is the minutes from the meeting. However, the Town can and did change their minds apparently.
I agree the city should "clean house"
on the council all that in fighting and crap that goes on at the city meeting and know trying to extort more money from the town who already paid their fair share shame shame DISAPPOINTED CITY RESIDENT
I think I will sell my house in the city and move to the town at best they are fair and easy to get alone with and treat each other with respect and they don't stab each other in the back
Amen from another City resident. Have Donna and Joe ever asked US how we feel and what we want? We know of no other city residents who carry such anger. They should read Aaron Becker's column in last weeks Commonwealth! Good thoughts - quit the bickering among GL council people and start working FOR US rather than carrying a grudge and their longtime anger.As a City of GL resident, I'm embarassed as to their juvenile behavior. Much more would be accomplished both in our City as well as the relationship with Town of Brooklyn if they obeyed the Commandment - "Blessed are the Peacemakers".
Too bad you did not get to the Library meeting on Tuesday to hear the Town Chairman rant and rave at a City council member for bringing up their agreed upon amount for the roof.
"We know of no other city residents who carry such anger."
I guess you wouldn't know if you were only paying attention to Green Lake. Look around you.
“They should read Aaron Becker's column in last weeks Commonwealth! Good thoughts - quit the bickering among GL council people and start working FOR US rather than carrying a grudge and their longtime anger.”
To be fair, that wasn’t really what that column said. The point was that the Council has enormous potential if the members can look beyond their differences. It wasn’t specifically a criticism of anyone. The column was referring to the censure, and the need to move forward as a team. If new information/proof surfaces, then of course the Council should look into it. But unless that ever happens, it’s time to move forward and cooperate.
It seems "leadership" these days consists of two minds: 1) the book smart that have little idea of how to understand or relate to people. These people actually think they are right 100% of the time and do not understand the nonsense they explain their poor decision making with. And 2) those that want to give the people want they want but do not understand the nuts and bolts of running a publicly owned business or maintaining a city's financial well being.
The end result is no trust between the parties that need to work together. Everyone is placing blame on everything else that they couldn't handle in order to prevent avoidable reaction and consequence. One couldn't tell the truth if they wanted to or they set themselves up for liability and attack. There are many individual reasons for the snake oil and BS taxpayers must contend with and pay for.
Maybe if we videotaped all meetings, people would behave more professionally and with integrity. At the very least, it might be entertaining to watch our elected officials acting like kindergartners on the playground.
Another idea might be to hire a city manager, and reform city government. Perhaps if we all thought of Green Lake as a business that needed a dependable, accountable, capable CEO to make things run smoothly and balance out, we might be better off.
Government was meant to be run "by the people". That is a nice thought, and I agree with the concept. But times are getting crazier by the day. Now we have a Ripon college student planning to run for mayor or Ripon. If the student body is allowed to vote in that election, Ripon might end up with a 20 year old mayor who still pinches his zits while he reads Mad Magazine. He might be totally unqualified to run a city, plan a budget, organize a meeting. Green Lake has a mayor that I am sure is good at many things, like hunting and fishing and operating a paint store, but running the city might not be one of his strong points.
It behooves me why Green Lake does not have an officially titled City Administrator. But having a city administrator will not solve the behind the scenes politics or residents' lack of trust in local government. Because any so called administrator can only administrate what the city council instructs him/her to do, and if the council members are NOT representing the people properly because they're batshit over the mayor or another slick, dominating presence, then there isn't much the city administrator can do.
I would love to have a city administrator but we currently cannot afford it. Over my six years on the council, we have cut and cut the budget in an effort to not raise taxes. In these ecomonic times, I don't think it makes sense to do that to our citizens in an effort to add another position.
To answer one blogger's comment about anger with the Town, if anyone ever attends meetings, you will find that I have never raised my voice to any person. I attempt to get concerns addressed and then vote based on the facts at hand. To say that I show anger is truly
not correct. I realize anyone can say what they want here with no identity known, but I feel as an elected official I must stand up for my actions and put my name out here. Not many people will do that. Again, I want to say that if you have a concern about any item before the council, please call. I cannot read minds and I would be happy to discuss any issue with you. Very few people have called!
First of all how do we know that the library needs a new roof? The roofing has had leaking and ice damming issues for many years. If you spend 80,000.00 on a new roof what makes you think it will stop leaking. It seems there is a design issue here and an expert in roofing design should be consulted. If the roof only leaks where it does not drain properly then that is what needs to be addressed. The roof seems to have plenty of pitch so the water runs off it very well. Something as simple as insulation or heating elements or new gutters may remedy the problem for another 10-15 years without such an expensive price tag.
You may want to ask the Library Director that question.
Just verified this with Snopes and it is REAL. ALSO WENT TO TRUTH OR FICTION , IT’S on their site also.
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Aaron Becker had some amusing comments about the city and the town bickering in this weeks Commonwealth. He suggested we build a wall between them. Might just work.
I thought his article was tasteless. He is just trying to stir up the pot and sell papers.
Watch out for the Dream Team as Aaron Becker coined. All the city projects that are on the table will cost a lot of money. Do we have the cash flow to sustain them?
“He is just trying to stir up the pot and sell papers.”
Green Lake and Brooklyn don't need anyone to stir the pot for them. They're doing that just fine on their own. I thought the article put an amusing twist on this increasingly ridiculous rivalry.
Well said, last post. Don't blame the newspaper for the incessant Green Lake-Brooklyn bickering. This has gone on for years. The city and township may as well learn to laugh at themselves, since everybody else already is.
Since the Town and City councils are chosen by us citizens, they should ask US what WE want - let us VOTE.....Oh yeah, they know they wouldn't like the outcome so it will never happen. Meanwhile we will do as the above posters have said, shake our heads, roll our eyes at their childishness and laugh together as so well expressed in Aaron's words!
Come on City Clerk. It is noon on Mon. 11/9/09 - where is tonight's agenda for the common council meeting? How can we be informed?
So what happened at the Town Board meeting last night? Did they pony up their fair share for the new library roof?
According to the GL Reporter, Town Of Brooklyn unanimously voted down a measure to give a $10,000 donation to the Library roof fund; unanimously voted down a request for a donation to the Hwy 23 bike path; and unanimously voted not to raise their room tax rate. So are they now charged a fee to use the Library and the Bike path?
The town already pays their share for library services. This is a different topic. The city of Green Lake owns the library building, and is responsible for it's upkeep. While help from the town would be great, they are not obligated to give money for a new roof, in my opinion. It is the city that is falling short of their obligations.
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