There was another annexation meeting at the gym on Mill Street last night. Did it create more questions than answers?
I am curious as to why the development people didn't woo the township as hard as they are trying with the city annexation. The township didn't turn them down. They just wanted adjustments. Lindenwood just picked up and moved on without even trying to adjust their development to the township requests.
I also wonder who Kunkel engineering works for? He sounded awfully partisan to me. No just the numbers for this guy. He presented a case that made it sound like he was working for Lindenwood.
I particularly enjoyed the woman who presented the Maplewood statistics. Eye-opening for everybody. It makes you wonder just how much tax relief the city would really get.
I also hear about the 71,000 dollars being reimbursed to the city. What account in the city coffers did the original cost come from and what account is it in now? Where is the reimbursement? Has anybody the actual reimbursement?
And what about the simplistic assumption that it will take only $50,000 more for an additional policeman but nothing more for fire assistance. I have read a letter from Chief Wagner to the city that it would take upgrading of fire equipment, roads and fire hydrants to protect the development properly. Kunkel didn't even mention this expense or letter.
If the Green Lake Conference Center just got a liquor license maybe all their money worries would go away. Or maybe a good commercial buyer is the answer.
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12 years ago
35 comments:
I was not at the meeting last night, but have recieved a copy of the flyer that was handed out . Very interesting.
It states: Annual cost est. to City of GL is $55,000? Where did they get that number and "services provided post-annexation" - what services? Why not list them?
Infrastructure & improvements w/development will be pd for by the developer? Sounds like it could end up being a pretty hefty price tag & who knows, maybe somehow the cost will "mysteriously be put on the people"? Something to consider. Its not like we are talking Donald Trump here.
Earn nearly $700,00 annually or $9million over 20 yrs? We will not see any monies at all until lots are sold and homes built. Last I heard, real estate market is down.
Under heading: "...Annexation Approved" As many as 98 families....enriching it with their skills.....exactly where are the jobs? As far as I know, not many people are moving to GL for jobs.
It sounds like "no matter what", Ken, Lindenwood are determined to get this development pushed through. Sounds like bullying to me.
Yes, development will come, but, why not just show "good faith" develop a portion of it, keep the rest as "green space" so that all can enjoy the beauty of not only the Lake, but, Green Lake & the grounds. Why are you bent into making it a gated community? This isn't Phoenix, Palm Springs, etc....this is Green Lake. Green Lake is a very special & unique lake/area. Don't mess with it. It will be lost.
Sounds to me like "anonymous" above is afraid of change like so many others in Green Lake. More lies, more accusations, more whining, more scare tactics from people who know little to nothing about development and funding ministry programs.
It doesn't matter which city official gives out what information. These people will attack it and say it's "wrong" with no proof, just like the people who oppose the new county courthouse. I don't know why the city even bothered to share it's findings because people like this will continue to pretend there's some sort of conspiracy afoot.
The real shadowy figures here are these 30-some PART TIME GLCC residents who have kept new homeowners out by intimidating the Brooklyn Town Board into re-interpreting the town laws. Then they try turning the tables by shrieking "Lindenwood is not following the rules!" Baloney. Request a copy of the town's 20,000-square-foot lot size ordinance. I dare you. See for yourself - It applies to the Lindenwood plan, whether you like it or not.
Dear anonymous,
Why not go to city hall and read the full report instead of not knowing the facts presented to the council and making new accusations?
Did you know Mike Wuest has already indicated to the developers they can have the development if they just come back to the town?
Development is going to happen, folks. Now the decision is whether to have it in the city or not. The city's ordinance on stormwater management is good. The town does not even have an ordinance on stormwater management. The city can do more to protect the area than the town with developer agreements.
Yes, the development should happen. However, I came away from the meeting sensing only three yes votes to annexation, two no votes, and a maybe. Anyone else have a different viewpoint?
Yes, the Development will happen, but I agree with the 4:35 pm comments. There are too many unanswered questions that need to be addressed so we know more what is involved in numerous ways. Let's get the facts! Let's SEE them!
here is a fact someone can follow up on. what acct. is the 71,000 reimbursement fee in? Isn't that a public record?
More of the same crap. Some in favor, some opposed and the standard filibuster attack by the ABA homeowners. My gosh that Dick Marten's in the most condescending BS filled lawyer I've ever heard. Does he think he's special or what? I can't believe the mayor or any of the city council folks don't tell him to lose the act and speak to them as adults and not first graders?
The city staff report was interesting but I think it needs a little more study.
Perhaps Dick Martens will start to talk to the mayor and some of the city folks as adults when some of these city folks start to behave not as first graders.
Dear anonymous,
If you are wondering what account the $71,000 plus another $14,000 from the developers were placed, go to city hall and ask. It is public record. The city has a general fund for these receipts. It also pays the lawyer and city engineer expenses from this fund.
Nothing is hidden here. I am sure the city clerk will share that with you. Why wonder? City government is open to your questions. You sound suspicious and as an alderman, I would be happy to sit down with you and listen to your concerns and share what I know to set your mind at ease. Just call me to set up a time and place.
Hi Chief,
I reread your orginal message on the blog under "Mischief on Mill Street Wednesday Night-Annexation Mtg. I saw you at the meeting and am perplexed that you have so many concerns but do not take it upon yourself to ask and get some factual information. You would rather stir up citizens from the town and city with misrepresentations and accusations. You do not really serve this community well with your blog. You must have it in for the citizens of Green Lake and yet you reside here. Don't you folks wonder why "Chief Highknocker" says what he does....
Obviously the Chief is an overly suspicious simpleton, who loves accusations, misinformation and inaccuracies, just like many of his/her posters on this blog. Their lives are so boring, that they thrive on gossip and acting or thinking they have the inside scoop on everyone. It’s a game, does it hurt anyone, maybe a little, but you have to take it all very lightly.
Is there any “news source” that reports all the facts accurately? Have you ever been misquoted or had your words twisted, do you believe everything you read? Even main line newspaper reporting is often skewed from the writer’s perspective. Perhaps this blog should be thought of more like; “Inquiring Minds want to know”. And what do they want to know… what’s the dirt, what’s the gossip? The ugly wheel just keeps turning along.
So, if you want to know the facts, do what Donna Moore says, go to the city, call your alderperson, and contact the ABA or Lindenwood or any of the other folks that have been slandered in the writings of this blog. Ask them first hand, they will all talk to you. You may not believe what they tell you, but that will be your decision to do so. At least you will know you have done all you can to get the facts. If you want the gossip and dirt, keep reading this and many other blogs.
There's a rumor going around town that the "Chief" is Meade Grimm. I'm pretty certain he was there at city hall the other day for the meeting.
I've heard that the chief is someone else, not Meade Grimm. I do believe that the chief likes to stir up trouble. More and more people have started to read this blog because they've heard about it. I do believe people have been hurt by it. Green Lake is a small town and people remaining anonymous print anything about anyone.
actually the chief is not meade..and the chief consists of more than one person
I think the one person who should not be allowed to post without revealing their true identity is the owner/starter of the Blog.
Like any "news" service, a disclaimer can be served notifying people that opinions represented on the blog are not necessarily opinions of the blog owner, and are not therefore endorsed by the blog owner (chief)....and so on.
But hiding behind the chief highknocker identity is not good blog etiquette in my experience.
I have also heard around town that the chief is Meade.
As a regular reader of this blog site, I personally have no problem with the anonymity of the bloggers or the big Chief himself. In fact, I think it is better this way. We can each say exactly what we feel with no fear of being tarred and feathered in the town square. The County Inquisitor is a great way to explore all sides of an issue, and while people do sometimes say inappropriate things and feelings do get hurt, we are all here by choice. If you don't like it then go read something else and leave us cyber-siblings to fight amongst ourselves!
The hysterical people who oppose the annexation/development are looking ever more foolish by the week, especially these part-time GLCC residents. The more information that comes in via reports/meetings, the more ridiculous they look because their arguments are steadily crumbling.
Let’s review their nonsensical claims:
“Lindenwood isn’t following the rules!” It has been clearly shown that the county zoning allows 20,000 square foot lots, regardless of any games Brooklyn plays with its “comp plan.”
“The city will go broke!” It has been clearly shown that the city stands to gain $9 million in taxes over 20 years if the property is annexed.
“This is going to cost the city a fortune!” It has been clearly shown that the city has been reimbursed for all its expenses to date, around $85,000. Furthermore, it has been clearly shown that the developer must bear all costs of extending sewer and water.
“Brooklyn will sue!” It has been clearly shown that the city will be “held harmless” in the event of a lawsuit from the town.
“Maplewood isn’t selling!” So what? This is a free country, and if Lindenwood/GLCC want to create their own housing development, it’s their choice, not yours. The houses may not sell immediately, but sooner or later, the housing economy will turn around.
The bottom line is, the city needs to listen to its own professionals rather than a group of part-time GLCC homeowners with an agenda … this being “Keep others out and pretend it’s about Development Done Right.” Every one of their arguments boils down to not wanting other homes nearby.
Who are they to tell the city what’s best for the city? They don’t even live in the city, and they don’t even live in the town year round! They’re not included in the annexation petition, but that was their choice. Dick Martens pretends the GLCC homeowners were “gerrymandered out.” Not quite, Dick. They chose not to be included because they didn’t sign the petition for annexation. That being said, the annexation of the rest of the property is really none of their business.
It’s obvious they’re trying to prevent progress and keep their little corner of GLCC all to themselves, which is pretty sad, considering the land-sale proceeds will help ministry programs locally and worldwide.
Billy - you said "They’re not included in the annexation petition, but that was their choice..... They chose not to be included because they didn’t sign the petition for annexation."
My question is - Were the GLCC homeowners offered the opportunity to sign the annexation petition? When was that? Who offered them the chance to sign?
If the farm across the road decides to annex into the city, does the farmer run around asking his neighbors if they want in? He would if he new they were in favor. If they were against everything he was trying to do, why would he bother?
The homeowners in the ABA are just that, homeowners. They are not owners of the ABA. I realize this may be a shock to them. They have no right to anything the ABA does anymore than your neighbor does to your home or land. They pay only for road access rights to their homes. If they want to annex into the city, they can ask for annexation, what's stopping them? They already have the lawyer to set it up for them. Could it be they are not excited about their mill rate going up from $1.00 - $6.70?
Since the off the cuff comment from the audience was again made at the meeting last week, that the ABA homeowners tried to purchase the ABA development lands to put them into conservancy lands; can anyone tell me when, if ever, the ABA homeowners or anyone else has made an Official Proposal to the ABA administration to purchase the proposed development lands for the purpose of putting them into conservancy lands?
Not just talk, not just discussion, not just an off handed remark, for we all know that talk is cheap and your actions can cost you real dollars that will come out of your bank account, not someone else’s. When, if ever, was an actual researched thought out hard and fast proposal that would come close to comparative financial realization for the ABA from what they propose to get from the development, presented to the proper authorities at the ABA?
Anyone? How about you folks out there at the ABA, did you ever receive anything?
I've been watching the above post now for six days. Seeing no response in that time, one would assume we can consider the Myth that the ABA homeowners or anyone else for that matter, tried to buy the ABA development lands for conservancy a Myth Busted!
You’re right “baseless claim”, talk is cheap!
Once again, it seems like the only ones that folks like giving their money to are the attorneys. They get rich while we all bicker. What a waste.
wow, 6 days...did you take a potty break?
To Myth busted and Baseless Claim -
So you're saying that this is the way to find out if a rumor is true - to post it on an obscure blog, wait a few days and then if no one responds, announce that it is true or not true, depending on your preference?
I recently heard a rumor that the world is flat. Unless someone with direct knowledge of this situation can produce concrete proof on this blog within six days that it's not flat, I'll have to assume that the rumor is true.
It’s about time someone else realizes the world is really flat. Welcome to the club!
Also, we never went to the moon; that was a scam. Aliens did land in Roswell, New Mexico in 1947, the government has covered it up ever since. The aliens are living amongst us. The government knows where, but it’s highly classified. No doubt, the aliens are also posting on this blog??
That would explain a lot!
For such a nice looking place,this blog sure brings out the ugly...Just a friendly reminder- In order to stimulate the economy in a small resort town, you shouldn't air your town's filthy laundry on the internet.People do look into these type of things before planning family trips.
p.s. Maybe you need to hire a City Manager before that place self-destructs. You need to run it like one big Company,or be left behind.
Thanks "CHIEF"
I have been a Green Lake resident for more than 45 years. My family and I have in the past considered moving to a different area, in the interest of earning a higher income. We, as a family, decided that we love Green Lake and would not consider moving anywhere else. Green Lake to us, is paradise. However I do not understand why some (I mean some) local residents treat our summer residents as, outsiders, carpetbaggers, rich people from Illinois or what other bad name-calling they have used. Green Lake has for more than 100 years been a summer resort area, that, as most other resort areas, have depended on the money spent by these summer residents in the local economy. These summer residents hire local contractors to build their homes, hire local plumbers, electricians, heating contractors, landscapers and lawn maintenance crews. They invite their friends and family and take them to the local restaurants. I believe that a majority of us local residents income depend on these summer residents. So why alienate them by calling them “names”. My neighbor across the street is 82 years old. Her parents built a modest summer home on Green Lake before she was born. She, her parents, children, grandchildren and great-grand children have come to Green Lake for more than 85 years and they all “love Green Lake”. She does not understand why “some” local residents treat her as an outsider. Most of these “summer residents” have come to Green Lake for decades and they all have one thing in common with us full time residents in that they “love Green Lake”. They are as interested in keeping Green Lake economically viable as us full time residents. The company that I work for could not survive without the business generated by the summer residents and I would not have a job. So why don’t we stop treating them as our enemies and start treating them as neighbors and in many cases also as our friends. If we all work together we can come up with a solution to how we should proceed with the development of ABA/GLCC/Lawsonia/Lindenwood property that will benefit all of us.
I would like to add something to the previous blog posting. These “summer residents” pay more than 10 million dollars every year in real estate taxes while at the same time put very little pressure on the various local government bodies, such as the library, police department, fire department and school district. Just imagine if all these “summer residents” were to put their children in to our local schools. We would have to build 2 or 3 new schools and our local school district would go bankrupt. Just ask some of the local business owners what their business would be, had it not been for the money these summer residents spend in the local economy. Let’s face it, our local economy depends on these people and we should treat them as any business would treat their customers, treat them well.
My hats off to the last two blogs, very well said. I am Wisconsin born and raised, but lived in Chicago for a few years as a young adult. The thing that struck me about living in Chicago was how friendly everyone was there, noticeably nicer than folks here in Wisconsin. It seems most of us Cheeseheads need to learn some social skills.
Yep, without the rich fibs, us bottom feeders who live here year round just wouldn't be able to survive. At least that's the attitude a lot of the lake people portray. We're all just here to suck up to them while they're here at their vacation playground that we happen to call our home.
This last blogger must live in his own world of ignorance. If he does not like the reality of us living in a resort area that depends on our seasonal residents, perhaps he should consider living somewhere else. Good riddance.
The blog posting of March 10 at 9.02 PM is an example of “some local residents” that have an attitude that turns off not only summer residents but also year-around residents. I call Green Lake my home and I do not live on the lake and I do recognize that our local economy could not survive without the tourists and the seasonal residents. If any business owner would treat their customers with the kind of an attitude that this blogger displays, they would go bankrupt.
I agree with the fact that all my work and income comes from the lake homeowners and local business owners, but the only thing that upsets me is when certain part-time lake people try to control or contain the rights of us full time city residents. If they pay so much money in taxes and services then why is it so hard for the city to find the money to pave our roads, or put in sidewalks, buy a street sweeper, run our schools. We are not asking for commercial sprawl but for simple things that every city needs.
I can understand the frustrations that were expressed by the blogger of March 11, 10.53 AM. But I would like to rebut his statement “If they pay so much money in taxes”. It is not if they are, they are paying more than 10 million dollars each year, which can be verified by anyone at the Green Lake Courthouse. As to the second part of that statement, I am also frustrated by the inefficiencies of spending our tax dollars. For example the school districts annual cost per student is several thousand dollars higher than New Trier School District in Illinois. New Trier School District is rated as one of the best school districts in the country. Someone is not spending our tax dollars the most efficient way.
It is not a reasonable comparison to hold a Green Lake type school up to to a New Trier school in Illinois. Yes, what you say is true, on a strict per student comparison. However... ( andI am familiar with the New Trier school having lived in that area), it is a much larger student population base, in a major metropolitan suburban area of Chicago. Those classes are filled up at a much larger student to staff ratio, so there are some efficiencies they can achieve that a small district like Green Lake simply cannot.
I think we have to be careful here when comparing one piece of a puzzle. Probably more realistic comparisons are like sized schools, in like sized communities, with similar tax structures tied to a lake economy, and frankly, there are not a lot of those to compare with.
Green Lake does cost more per student. However, we have managed to keep the mill rate down, and it is still cheaper than if our kids had to go to Ripon or Berlin.
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