12 years ago
Tuesday, April 15, 2008
Annexation Lesson
If there is a lesson to be learned from the whole annexation issue it would seem that the TOB and City of Green Lake should come under one governing body. This whole issue let the Green Lake Center pit friends and neighbors against each other while the ABA sat back and waited. People who had common interests fought against each other. The City is in an untenable situation tax wise and it would be in the interests of all of us to combine into a larger governing body.
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About Me
- Chief Highknocker
- You aren't local until you have at least three generations in the cemetery.
56 comments:
I agree but don't understand how these things work. Are other places in Wisconsin doing this? Is it feasible? How do we go about it?
I don’t agree at all, what the hell does the TOB have to offer us CGL people? We have all the services we need and they want. There was talk about having to hire another police officer if ABA annexation went, how many more would we need if the whole TOB joined? The city had to fight for every $ they get from the TOB: example the summer rec. program, compost site…just to name a few…
I guess we will have to continue to pay six times as much in real estate taxes as residents of TOB. Perhaps both communities could save taxes if we combined?
The annexation was a loop-hole in the jurisdiction venue, it is unfortunate that it was acted upon and should never have been available as a negotiating tool or option for the GLCC/Lindenwood- they were able to bully their way through and set a community at odds. Not the way to bring about change.
One previous blogger stated “Lindenwood wants to protect their reputation”. Let’s go over their reputation and what they have done so far to preserve that reputation.
1. Lindenwood is a small time homebuilder with no previous experience in a major land development.
2. They presented their plan to the Township and basically said ‘take it or leave it” without listening to the Townships concerns about zoning, roads and lot sizes.
3. Converted a private home (seven gables) to a sales office without getting prior approval for a zoning change.
4. Issues a sales brochure that states that all people buying a lot on ABA property shall also have a right to purchase a boatslip on Green Lake (this is against the State of Wisconsin law that prohibits pyramiding of boat slips for back lot owners).
5. Filed a lawsuit against the Township (still pending).
6. Requested an annexation of their property to the City of Green Lake.
7. Promised to reimburse the City for all expenses incurred in connection with the annexation.
8. Requested that the City annul their request for annexation.
9. Refuses to pay for the City’s expenses unless the City complies with their request of removing their request for annexation.
10. Lindenwood agrees, and signs a “Pre-Development” with the Township to give two weeks notice before commencing with logging on ABA property and to cooperate with DNR and Green Lake County Conservationist prior to start any logging so that DNR and the Conservationist will have a change to determine how to minimize the removal of trees.
11. Starts logging without prior notice to both DNR and County Conservationist.
I am not arguing for or against the development, but from my point of view I am not sure if I want to do business with a developer that is not interested in following any rules and is not willing to live up to any agreements made. Whether the development takes place under the Township or the City, I certainly hope that our lawyers (Township or City) makes sure that Lindenwood is living up to all the rules, contracts and laws.
Absolutley, well -stated: April 21 7:28 pm -- THE FACTS. Thank you for clearly stating the actions of these particular developers.
How can this Developer be stopped or controlled? He does as he wants, when he wants and does not respect agreements he has made? How can he ever be trusted?
Based on all that the previous poster said, I am puzzled as to why Ken Giacoletto, President of the Green Lake Conference Center, selected Lindenwood Development (Ted Dominowski and Doug Crusan) to partner with the ABA in developing the Estates of Lawsonia. Does anyone know how and why they were selelcted? Seems an odd choice, to say the least.
I cannot put in print why I believe he made that choice!
For all you who are wondering about the tree cutting at the ABA, there's an excellent story in the Ripon paper this week. Turns out, there's another whole side of the story that the ABA homeowners don't want you to know.
Since I am one of those home owners I would like to know what I do not want you to know!
Well, basically, that e-mail spread around by Dick Martens and the rest was ... shall we say ... factually challenged.
The developers have sound explanation. The ABA homeowners have nothing but accusation. They're starting to get desperate - hence, the misleading e-mail from Martens.
What facts were challenged?
Kevin - I read the Ripon Commonwealth article and from it I have taken Doug Crusan's (of Lindenwood Development) responses to three facts stated in the email to the City Council.
1) Fact:Lindenwood Development has begun logging, even though the plat has not been approved -
Article: "Lindenwood partner Doug Crusan confirmed that logging is underway."
2) Fact: Lindenwood Development did not give two weeks notice to the DNR, as requested by Jennifer Huffman.
Article: "Crusan acknowledged that he forgot to notify Huffman."
3) Fact: Lindenwood Development did not consult with the county conservationist prior to logging, as specified in the pre-development agreement with Brooklyn.
Article:"Crusan responded, "The reason we asked for private roads is so we could minimize the effect on trees." (Which I guess means he "forgot" to talk to the county conservationist also.)
So Kevin - I don't know how you got what you say you got out of the Ripon article - maybe you need a new pair of reading glasses.
Wow, that last post was absurdly biased. Not surprisingly, Mr. Anonymous neglected to mention several points from the article:
1. Mike Wuest and Jennifer Huffman of the DNR both confirmed Lindenwood is in TOTAL COMPLIANCE. Oh, you must have missed that part! Clumsy you.
2. Yes, Crusan forgot to notify Huffman, but doing so was NOT REQUIRED, as stated in the article. Therefore, no violation.
3. Lindenwood is not cutting lots at this time — only roads and detention ponds. The rest will come AFTER county approval, as required, and as stated in the article.
4. Lindenwood HAS worked to minimize environmental impact via narrower road impact, marking each mature tree on a GPS, and submitting their plans to JACLUM (and then adopting 95 percent of JACLUM's environmental suggestions, even though doing so was not required).
5. Crusan emphasized ALL the necessary permits are in place, and he’d be happy to show them to anyone. Maybe Mr. Anonymous should take Crusan up on that offer rather than spreading more half-truths.
The article gave both sides, while Mr. Anonymous chose to pick and choose. I’d be interested to know where he lives, because that’s what the private ABA homeowners have been doing since Day 1.
.
Kevin - You say you'd like to know where "anonymous" lives -
I'd be interested to know where you work. You sound alot like Doug Crusan or Ted Dominowski of Lindenwood Development -
You NIMBYs are pathetic. Every time someone disagrees with you (by pointing out the facts rather than just the half-truths), you accuse them of working for the developer.
My name is Kevin Schepp and I've lived in Green Lake County for 11 years. I work for Quad Graphics.
Kevin, YOU are the person who is PATHETIC!
Dear Kevin
I am the author of the post on April 21 at 7.28PM. I have been a resident of Green Lake for 43 years. I raised 11 points about Lindenwood just to illustrate that their behavior so far does not give me a lot of confidence about trusting them to live up to any agreements they have or will make with the TOB. One point, as an example, is that they are offering all lot purchases on ABA a boat slip on ABA grounds. Since this is against the Wisconsin law how can TOB and Lindenwood state that they are in full compliance with all agreements, rules and agreements? I have contacted DNR and they have no records of any inquire from either ABA or Lindenwood about them waving this state law. The first face of Lindenwoods development is 97 lots and the second face is 83 lots for a total of 180 lots. This means that we would have 180 new boatslips on ABA grounds. DNR tells me that it is highly unlikley that they would permit 180 boatslips. Since Lindenwood is promising boatslips to every lot purchaser I cant help but wonder how they can do that. Kevin, since you seems to be in the know, perhaps you could help me understand.
Kevin - I am the person who wrote the post asking whether you were Doug Crusan or Ted Dominowski. I asked the question because I am genuinely puzzled as to why any local person supports Lindenwood Development. As I understand it, they have indicated that they will not be using local contractors,and they are only willing to use local suppliers who have agreed to give them a bunch of stuff free first. They are such a small outfit that they cannot possibly build more than a few houses each year, which means it will be 25-35 years before the first 97 homes are finished. So I don't see much upside to this for anyone or anything in Green Lake. Maybe you can help me understand.
Based on public and published information Lindenwood are to pay for all infrastructures in the development. They are then to be covering this cost by the sale of the initial lots. Considering that they need to build roads, install sewer lines and other utilities I estimate that their up front costs will be close to 5 million dollars. I also estimate that they need to sell at least 10 to 15 lots to cover their up front costs. This would mean that ABA would not see any money from this deal until after these 10 to 15 lots have been sold. Considering that after 5 years Maplewood have only sold 6 or 7 lots in 5 years and it has taken Emerald Shores 10 years to sell their 29 lots it appears to me that ABA will have a long wait to see any money from this development. If you then add to the picture our country’s current economic problem I do not see a good future for this development. However this is a free country and we all have the right to succeed or fail. Since ABA seem to be in need of money now, I can’t help but wonder if they could not have explored other methods of raising money.
Amen to that!
The ABA homeowners have all been longtime supportes of ABA. Some of these homeowners have made major contributions to ABA over the years. Some of these contributions have been in the form of annual gifts and some through gift in their estates. In other words, all ABA homeowners have supported ABA for many years (some for more than fifty years). We (ABA homeowners) found out about ABA's financial problems in the newspaper and about their plan to develop (sell) part of their real estate. Perhaps one of their options could have been to talk to their neighbors. After the ABA lot owners found out about ABA’s idea to sell 180 lots to raise money for their ministries, the ABA lot owners asked ABA to postpone the sale of 180 lots and said to ABA, we can help you raise the money needed but please give us more than 30 days to find a solution. ABA basically ignored the ABA homeowners and proceeded with their development plan. In the past two years the ABA homeowners have continued to attempt to contact ABA (Ken Giacoletto) and the ABA board members to see if we, together, can work to find a solution to ABA’s financial problems. So far, Ken and the ABA board have not been willing to even listen to any suggestion on how we, the ABA homeowners can help ABA solve their financial problems. We have written many letters to the ABA board about possible solutions, but so far have not have had any response. In other words, they feel that the know it all and are not interested in listening to any solution that the ABA homeowners can come up with. Most of these ABA homeowners have been longtime supporters of ABA and have over the years been contributors of a lot of money ($ millions) to ABA, and are willing to continue to contribute to ABA if only they (ABA) would listen to them. So far the ABA homeowners have had no luck in communicating with either ABA board or Ken. It appears that the only reason that ABA is selling lots is to raise money for their ministries. Before selling off some of their real estate, how about listening to their longtime supporters, the ABA homeowners, to see if these longtime supporters can help them. If Ken and the ABA Board are not willing to listen, I can foresee a large decline in both current and future financial support by these longtime supporters. I think these longtinme supportes are just asking the ABA to listen to their suggestions.
It's amusing to watch the NIMBYs go round and round with their arguments.
All last week, all we heard was, "Lindenwood is breaking the rules by logging!" That argument went on and on. ABA homeowners cheerfully passed around Dick Martens' misleading e-mail.
But then came the facts — the WHOLE story.
The newspaper revealed that Lindenwood IS following the rules with the logging. Information was gathered from credible sources other than Dick Martens.
So now, here we go again with the boat slip argument, the local contractor whining, and the naysaying about not being able to sell the homes. How predictable. One argument falls through, so the NIMBYs shift gear. Again.
No doubt, when those accusations get debunked like the rest, the NIMBYs will create yet another excuse to badmouth Lindenwood. It's fun to watch, because they're clearly running out of reasons to be angry (other than they don't like change).
Remember the nonsense about Brooklyn's comp plan? That argument crashed when the town finally admitted it has conflicting laws, one of which DOES allow half-acre lots. That means Lindenwood had a legitimate reason and right to request that size.
An insightful person on the "Last Night's City Council Meeting" topic wrote, "Just because it’s not the way you want it, and not how you would have done it, doesn’t make it wrong" (April 26, 2008 8:52 AM).
Hats off to this person. He or she could not be more correct. The NIMBY homeowners at the ABA and the rest of Green Lake's fear-of-change brigade have been screaming "Lindenwood is evil/wrong" since the start, and their arguments have pretty much fallen flat.
Clearly, to these people, "Development Done Right" means no development at all, because nothing will ever please them unless they somehow manage to stop the entire project. Anyone who says different is simply not in touch with reality — or honesty.
Kevin, Kevin -
I get that you are angry at the homeowners and apparently also some long-time residents. But you didn't actually answer any of the questions posed to you by previous posters. In particular, you were asked:
1) How can Lindenwood Development be offering boat slips to everyone if DNR says they can't?
2) How will the Green Lake community benefit from having a small time builder like Lindenwood Development, who won't use local contractors, build 1-2 new homes a year for the next 40 years
3) How will Ken Giacoletto and the Green Lake Conference Center get the financial help they say they need right away, if all the initial money from land sales goes into infrastructure?
Kevin - I'm assuming you must know something about this development and how it will benefit the community - things the rest of us don't know. Please share that information!
Kevin,
You have stated that you are for the Development. That is certainly within your right to have that opinion. However you also seem to be of the opinion that anyone that disagrees with you is either stupid, dishonest or have a special axe to grind. In a civil society it is possible for two people to have a difference of opinion without resorting to name-calling. How would you feel if anyone that disagrees with you would start to call you stupid, dishonest or ill informed? Lets continue to exchange ideas why we are for or against this development, but lets keep the conversation civil.
Since several bloggers have asked you some questions to clarify you opinion, how about you answering their questions.
I agree with the previous posting. Let’s get some answers before we jump on the bandwagon. I am a longtime resident of Green Lake and I need answers before I can decide if I am for or against this development. This is the biggest single development in the history of Green Lake County and could have a major impact on all of us. Some of the questions that I have are; what would happen to our lifestyle and our local economy if they succeed and the same questions if they fail. Since Lindenwood has had no previous experience in such a large project we need to know more about them so that we can determine if they are capable of doing the job correctly. Let’s not be flippant or hasty on this issue. Let’s get some answers.
Has anyone been out to the Green Lake Conference Center to see how extensive the logging is? I hear they are clearcutting cul du sacs and roads. I hope someone from the Town of Brooklyn is overseeing this!
Why has Ken Giacoletto allowed the Green Lake Conference Center lands to be decimated by Lindenwood Development for a project that has not been approved and apparently lacks financing?
What part of "funding world missions" don't you understand? Ken Giacoletto is cutting down the trees and ruining the environment here in Wisconsin so that poor third-world countries who don't have beautiful trees won't feel so bad. It all makes perfect sense to me! Keep killing the trees Ken, so Jesus will come back sooner. Like any of that money (what money?)is going overseas! The Conference Center needs that money to survive and they know it. If they really wanted the money for world missions, they should have sold the entire Conference Center. Why Ken still has a job is beyond me.
Some Home owners on the grounds offered to raise and/or donate big money to ABA (some were doing it already and willing to add more), but Ken ignored their offers infavor of the HIS logging,plans, etc. It is truly unbelieveable and could have been avoided IF Ken had tried to be amenable not only with the Homeowners, but the city, town and county in a sincere, forthright manner. We have observed his behavior from the beginng of this sad situation.
It seems the private ABA homeowners are even more crooked than previously thought. There have been reports of vandalism at Lindenwood's housing site. Funny how these NIMBY homeowners whine and accuse Lindenwood of shady practices, then some of them turn around and vandalize the area. Now who's breaking the law?
What proof do you have?
Just how do you vandalize a housing site with nothing on it but chopped down trees?
Question to Richard
What country are you from? Here in the USA you are presumed innocent until proven guilty. Based on a report of vandalism you appointed yourself judge and jury and found ABA homeowners guilty without even a trial or investigation. If you have any proof that ABA homeowners did vandalize Lindenwoods housing site present that proof to the police. But until then perhaps you will share with us what you mean
when you say, “there have been reports”.
On another subject, do you know that it is possible for the ABA homeowners to file a criminal complaint against you for spreading false rumors about them and you accusing them of vandalism? It seems to me that you are the one that is breaking the law
I think that both Richard and Kevin like the acronym NIMBY and are just looking for excuses to use it in a sentence.
I think we should start a rumor (whether true or false) about Kevin and Richard. Here it goes; Kevin and Richard are lovers that have been suspected of several burglaries in the area. Let’s keep our community safe from homosexual burglars.
Now Kevin and Richard, do you like someone to post the above kind of posting about you. I bet you that the ABA homeowners don’t like to be called crooks even if they have a difference of opinion then you.
FYI 99.99 % of the Homeowner arenot in GL now! How CAN they be blamed?
Perhaps Kevin and Richard are multiple personalities of the same person, manifesting their supressed homosexual tendencies along with paranoid schizophrenic delusions. Everywhere they look they see GLCC homeowners committing vandalism, and they lay awake at night in the dark trying to come up with new acronyms. Now I Might Believe You.
I apologize for suggesting the vandalism could be homeowners at the ABA. It could be anyone for that matter. However, it is fair to say the vandalism was probably done by someone who's angry with the Lindenwood project.
Hey, watch those negative homosexual comments. Many of us "persons of alternate lifestyles" have lived amongst you now in good ole Green Lake for Years! 36 years in fact for me and my partner about 20. We have never done any vandalism. We're so good, you don't even know who we are, at least you never said you did. I've always found this to be a Gay friendly community... You're surprised now, aren't you?
I have re-read the blogs and do not see any words that are negative regarding the homosexual lifestyle. Interesting that you (a homosexual) would percieve it that way. And I don't believe that the blogger was insinuating that gays are prone to vandalism, that was just an example they used to make a point.
Also, it was nice of Richard to apologize.
Sorry, when someone insinuates homosexuality as a way to offend someone or to "start a rumor" about them, I take offense to that.
I'm juts a quiet old man now and I've listened to this crap all my life. Sometimes it just sets you off. My apologies if I offended anyone by my being offended
Sometimes the threads on this Blog just seem to flip-off into something weird...I lost it with the NIMBY calling leading to homosexuality...what?? where did the point go? there seem to be some constructive questioning happening -- then maybe everyone went out ot enjoy what's left of the green earth(?) Spring is here- we could all use some fresh air!
I am offended also. Kevin and Richard offend me. They have used the tactic that anyone that disagrees with them is either a NIMBY or Crook or whatever other name some postings have used. I am a longtime resident of Green Lake and at this time I am for the ABA development, but that does not mean that I think that anyone that has a different opinion than me is a crook. I think that the previous posting about Kevin and Richard illustrated that it is easy to post unfounded allegations, if even if they were in jest and the idea of posting such allegations are not in the best interest of our community
To the above post, I again apologize for my earlier comment that maybe the private homeowners were responsible for the damage. It was made out of frustration, not fact. It's not clear who did it. Also I'm sorry for using the word "crooks." It was a poor choice of word, as I'm sure these are good people who just want to protect their interests like any of us would.
It bothers me that the developer is always accused of shady or illegal practices, but then the development site gets vandalized. That's what caused my initial anger. I'm truly sorry for not finding a more appropriate way to express it. Green Lake doesn't need any more fighting. Regardless of who did the vandalism, I have learned not to jump to a conclusion. Please accept my apology.
I agree with the previous two posters - I'd like to have conversation without name calling and I'd like to see if we all can get some honest understanding of what is happening.
Here are three questions that were posted a while ago -
1) How can Lindenwood Development be offering boat slips to everyone if DNR says they can't?
2) How will the Green Lake community benefit from having a small time builder like Lindenwood Development, who won't use local contractors, build 1-2 new homes a year for the next 40 years?
3) How will Ken Giacoletto and the Green Lake Conference Center get the financial help they say they need right away, if all the initial money from land sales goes into infrastructure?
Anyone have any insights?
Regarding your third question, my understanding is that the Town of Brooklyn will be posting a $3 million bond to pay for the infrastructure.
I'm told that it is unheard of for a town to bond for a private development, outside of a TIF district.
This means town residents are at financial risk, in already risky times, if Lindenwood can't make payments.
In addition, there is the issue of precedence.
There will be a public hearing about the bond (don't know the date), but I'm not clear if there will be a binding vote.
Town of Brooklyn residents, you better pay attention to this.
Does anyone know when the public hearing will be for the proposed bond for infrastructure for Lindenwood's Estates of Lawsonia?
Here is some information that may provide some insight into some proposed ways that the development may take shape:
1) It has been suggested that the developers may be contracting to have the homes built off site via a production facility and then have the different facits trucked in for assembly. This would provide for a faster build process as it would all be done via computers and robotics.
2) Unless something has changed, any person who would purchase a lot has a choice of using their own plans and builder. There is an associated uplift for this priveledge though.
3) How many slips the ABA can offer is mereley a function of the amount of shoreline they own. In this case, it is probably 1000's of feet. According to current DNR rules, every 100 feet allows for three slips, so every 1000 feet means 30 slips. The ABA probably has enough shore line to be awarded 90 slips. The DNR will most likely give them what they want as long as they cluster them versus taking up a large protion of the shore line (which is what the DNR does not want)
4) The ABA will not be providing a one to one ratio of slips to lots. The reason for this is not everyone will want to pay for the priveledge of having a slip. Most access related developments tend to run at around a 50% usage to total lots developed. If this trend continues with the development in the ABA, they will probably need somewhere around 50 slips for the first phase, but they will most likely build a first phase pier structure that will hold half of that and then build a second cluster pier down the shore a ways per DNR request.
Question, regarding slips, how does this differ from a pyramid development (lots not lake on the lake getting piers), which I thought was illegal here?
To answer your question regarding back lot access, which is no longer allowed, due to the fact the the ABA and not the developer owns the shoreline, the ABA can create a "Marina Like" atmosphere just as Maplelwood is doing and then charge the owners a fee for the privilege of having a slip each year. Certainly there is a greater value in having a deeded access to your property than merely the "right to rent a slip" but for many they will just figure in the cost of this a part of their analysis when looking at Lindenwood versus other lake access properties in the area.
This is how Maplewood and Lindenwood are getting around the back lot issues with regards to development.
Any word about when the public hearing will be for the Town of Brooklyn's $3 million bond for Lindenwood Development's infrastructure?
Does anyone know what happens if Lindenwood Development defaults on the bond? Does the Town have to pay?
What would happen if the property were left half completed and in a mess? Who would pay to have it restored then? Or would it just sit there and deteriorate? In todays market this project seems questionable and senseless.
Chief - will you be attending the County Land Use and Zoning Committee on June 4? I understand they are considering the ABA and Lindenwood's new plat.
chief - were you at the County Zoning Commision meeting last night (June 4)? I'm curious what you thought about what that all went on.
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