I still think they should seriously consider turning the courthouse into a casino. At one time, in the distant past this lake had 3 of them. It would provide jobs, year around tourism and some life to the downtown. We need it.
I love what they finally did with the sidewalk on Mill Street. It looks great.
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12 years ago
59 comments:
The sidewalk looks great. I agree, for what it is, but here again, the city has ignored this problem for many years, now all of a sudden it is torn up and rebuilt using the same space and areas. No thought or planning in making the new asset to our downtown as best as it could be. I noticed many window shoppers (as the shops were not open of course) walking on the new sidewalk. They could hardly fit. I also see one of the stores has planter pots that cannot go on the sidewalk. They are sitting on the steps of the store. Looks stupid. Too many entrances (steps) to the sidewalk that block the lower sidewalk from being a functional sidewalk. How long before someone walks into one of those poles. Railing looks like it came from the Grand Canyon. None of the shop keepers can have tables or sale items out for sale no room. Kunkel should be fired for their idiotic plan. There was no reason that this new sidewalk could not have been wider, with only 2 inlets of steps. Plenty of room. Those idiots on the city council should not be making decisions with that idiot engineer.
I think you are being a little over critical regarding the sidewalk, but I do agree the planning was very utilitarian, the same as the new courthouse. At least the sidewalk has been fixed. Somewhat. That courthouse is the ugliest thing we will have to look at for the next 100 years. McGonnigle's Folly will live on.
More reasons why we need an experienced city manager.
We also need a new public works director. This roadwork fiasco is grounds for dismissal.
I agree the sidewalk on Mill St. looks great, much better than what was there. Regarding a casino, I agree it would bring in a few jobs, but what quality of people would it bring to Green Lake? I realize that not everyone who patronizes a casino is a low-life, but many are just that. In a city that won't even dole out a liquor license to an upscale restaurant, what makes you think that a casino would ever get approved? How about a nice brew-pub/sports bar instead?
How about many small shops and offices for rent at a reasonable price. It could be a very nice upscale mini-mall with it's interior public hall space that is unique and awesome. A few shops could start on the main floor and some offices on the upper or lower floors. With shop and office opportunities that are not a hugh investment might make it possible for new businesses to give it a go on a small scale.
The Gooseblind fills the sports pub arena. A casino would bring most people in for a day, maybe 2. They spend money and leave. Much better and if you don't think it will bring in more than a "few" jobs all year around you are haven't been to a casino.
The Gooseblind does not fill the sports pub arena, perhaps you've never been to a sports bar. A brew pub with some pool tables would be great! We have been to places like this in other cities and they are always busy. After all, Wisconsin is synonymous with beer. I am sure that the owner of the Gooseblind doesn't want any competitors, probably why she is on the city council.
I have given the abandoned courthouse a great deal of thought. This needs to be approached logically and realistically. Forget these notions of what we would do with the old red monster if we had millions of dollars to blow. The building belongs to the County. (It is the County Courthouse after all.) If the City of Green Lake tries to take on the responsibility, it will bankrupt us. The old courthouse is a huge money pit. Nothing is really going to work as a sensible solution, apartments, shops, condos, office space. Green Lake doesn't NEED any of those things. (We don't need a casino, either.) So what do we need? We need something that will bring people and money to the city. What is the city's most valuable commodity (besides the lake)? Our festivals. Green Lake makes more money during our festival weekends than the other 320+ days of the year combined.
The courthouse should be torn down, and a lovely town square/park should take it's place. It would overlook the mill pond, have floral gardens, fountains, a gazebo, paths, benches and green space. There would be a parking area included in the plan. The street at the bottom of the hill should be eliminated, and the entry to the mill condos would be left on Gold St. The park would tier down the hill to the pond. This would be perfect for our festivals, street dances, art fair, etc. In summer, there could be kiosks, street vendors, farmer's market, etc. especially on weekends. It is the perfect solution to the problem of an old courthouse in need of expensive repairs and updates.
I realize that the courthouse is on the historic registry, but in truth, it is not a beautiful or especially historic building. I for one would not miss it. I would much rather have a gorgeous park that would bring people to the city. There will be a small group that is against tearing it down, but it truly is a money pit and we would (as a community) be much better off without it.
In addition to this, the mill pond should be a viable part of Green Lake. Every year, it stands neglected and overgrown with weeds. Imagine a clean pond, with paddle boat and canoe rentals. Families could picnic along the banks in the park. People fishing along the banks...maybe a nice fishing pier.
Please, consider these ideas and imagine the potential. It really makes the most sense of any of the ideas. Do you really want a casino in Green Lake? I don't! A casino would make money, but not Green Lake as a whole. A casino would bring our quaint, safe little community down. Let's work together for good. I truly believe that a park is is the best idea for what to do with the courthouse site, and it will work beautifully to attract tourism and serve our community well!
Let's put the "green" into Green Lake!
Really like the idea put forth by 'This is It said'. A casino would not be good for Green Lake.
The Town Square/park sounds wonderful!!! Especially with the paddle boats, gardens, etc. We are getting enough gift shops, hair salons, and offices. Great idea!
And YES, we need a City Manager. Some good ideas being talked about, but need ONE experienced person to pull them together. "Too many cooks spoiling the pot." M
the courthouse is an historic building and can not be torn down.
I beg to differ. If the building is a detriment to the community, then it should be torn down. It is done all the time.
This is true. Buildings on the Historic Registry can be torn down. It happens ever day. I love the idea of a park! Best idea by far!
Tear it down and start fresh! Undoubtedly the building holds many hazardous material horrors (asbestos; lead; etc) that would result in even greater expense to any fool who would consider utilizing the structure for something other than what it was/is.
Green-space would be a welcome addition to an area that already boasts plenty of empty storefronts for those interested in opening a shop, boutique, sandwich shop, etc.
A park that brings in no taxes to the city! Just think about that folks.... Get real, summer is only a few months. We need jobs and a tax base that brings income in all year around.
The courthouse brings no tax money into the city, either. So there is no loss. And yes, bringing tourists to Green Lake is a huge gain, for the city, the store keepers, the restaurants, the motels, everyone. Tearing down the courthouse and creating a park would be a win-win situation.
As posted earlier...the courthouse is COUNTY property and should remain that way. If the city was to take on that old monstrosity it would be financially devastating. Whatever expense(s) the city would incur would not be offset by the revenue (taxes; rents; etc).
You are exactly right!
I have a big problem with the fact that the new city council member who was appointed last week (by a 3-2 margin) is the girlfriend of Green Lake's public works director. I can foresee huge conflicts arising as a result of this decision. This was a bad idea.
I agree. Too many people on the council related to each other & the mayor and now a relationship with the public works director. This is not good for our city. Bob Bensike would have been a better choice! However, three people on the council made that decision. Joe Parise and Don Carpenter voted against Martha Janz in favor of Bob. Please people think about this next time you vote in April.
Great post above!
The City of Green Lake should not take on the County's property. That would be a terrible mistake for the tax payers in the City. It would cost the City over $300,000 just to maintain an empty building.
Are we taxpayers still paying Glen McCarty's rent and utilities? If so, WHY?
The house that he lives in for free could be rented out by the city for $10.000 - $15,000 per year. This is lost income for the city. This makes no sense to let him live there for free!
Something needs to be done about this, and soon. This is not fair to any other city employee, or to us taxpayers.
Good luck to Alderperson Martha Janz. We have four women on the council to keep the old boys straight. In addition to this,one of the best things to happen to the City of Green Lake was the hiring of Glen McCarty as Public Works Director.
Opinions certainly vary on that...
Shadow, your comment is insulting to "the old boys".
Glen McCarty's free housing and utilities is a perfect example of why his girlfriend is not a suitable Alderperson. If the issue is addressed by the council, how can we expect Ms. Janz to be fair and objective? This is a huge conflict of interest for our community. Any and all decisions concerning Glen McCarty and the direction of the Public Works Department will be held in question. McCarty already has too much power in Green Lake, due to the weak leadership of our mayor.
The council members did not even meet to discuss the merits of the two candidates and which one would be a better fit to represent the city council. Shame on them!
The above comment is the dying breath of the evil cabal.
Get a life, Larry.
Glen McCarthy does not live in that house for free. He pays rent to the City. Get your facts straight. Call City Hall if you want to verify this!
Talk about the present City administration, did anyone realize the Mayor withheld a letter from the council from a local realtor on the vacation rental issue because he indicated it was addressed to him only. The author of the letter did not agree with the Mayor's thoughts. The Mayor did not know that anything he receives is a public record. After hearing this fact, the Mayor still refused to give the council his letter. The council had to get a copy of that letter from another source.
Read the minutes from the April/May meeting minutes. How can the Mayor get away with this type of leadership and not get in trouble? Our citizens do not realize what goes on......
I heard that the city attorney is looking into this matter.
Lets hope he acts on something instead of just looking into it. That is the city attorney's normal pattern. For some reason, people always give this Mayor a pass. I wonder why? He has been in office over two years. He should know his role by now.....
Speaking of giving a pass, why is Glen McCarty allowing work-release prisoners to drive city-owned vehicles during their community service? This is insane. I am sure that McCarty realizes that if one of these criminals is involved in an accident, the insurance company will not pay any claims. This would leave the taxpayers liable for any lawsuits.
I can't believe this matter has not been addressed and rectified. I want this stopped immediately!!!
I agree with The Shadow. You go girls!
Girls? By "girls", do you mean the 4-women clique of aldermen? Apparently, they have their own agenda, and here I thought that our government was supposed to represent the people. Maybe the "girls" can start fulfilling their assigned tasks and responsibilities as council members and quit tabling everything until it's convenient for them.
You go, girls.
I've sat in on quite a few council meetings and there is no doubt in my mind as to why this city is spiraling downward. Lack of leadership...lack of foresight...and lack of anyone wanting to make a decision - right or wrong!
Whomever used the word 'tabling' is completely accurate. The meetings last forever because all that these council members do is push the agenda forward to the next meeting. Nobody comes prepared to discuss the items in detail and there is always information lacking that needs to be addressed before something can happen...again...and again...and again!
For example: The council has been discussing uniformity in signs for downtown businesses FOREVER! I believe there is a committee which is chaired (I would have used the word 'led' but totally inappropriate use of the word) by Robin Wallenfang. This topic, and committee, have been working on this assignment for a totally unacceptable amount of time.
If people want to become members of the council then they need to commit themselves and be prepared to educate themselves on the topics at hand and make decisions on them.
What we have leading our city is a bunch of coffee klatchers who are led (there's that pesky word again) by a lumberjack posing as the mayor.
People of Green Lake...if you don't believe me...go see for yourself. Why do you think the council hasn't gone forward with televising their meetings. All it would take is an internet hookup and we'd all be impressed with the bumpkins spending our tax dollars!
SCHOOL BOARD PRELIMINARY BUDGET MEETING CONTINUES MONDAY, JUNE 28 AT 5 PM - BE THERE!
Speaking of using tax money responsibly, I understand there was a very interesting School Board meeting Wednesday. The preliminary 2010-2011 budget was presented for Board Members to approve. They also were to vote whether to have another "vital" referendum in September.BUT the ONLY 5 or 6 taxpayers who attended MADE A DIFFERENCE. They and a couple Board members questioned the necessity of several items on the proposed budget. I also understand a caring citizen presented VERY good, common sense alternatives where they could save taxpayer money.
Therefore it was proved that (some) school board members listen to what we say, and voted to table some items and continue discussing them and the temporary budget for approval THIS Monday, June 28 at 5:00- 8:00 p.m. in the office Conference Room. IT IS AN OPEN MEETING - so we taxpayers must be there - it is our money they are voting how to spend.
When Donna Moore left the city council to move, she requested that skyping the council meeting be placed into the 2011 budget. Citizens could then view meetings from the city web site. Lets see if this council follows thru.
That is a great idea. I hope it happens. Since the city can't even figure out how to do direct deposit with employees paychecks, I seriously doubt that they will ever get around to skyping their meetings. Wouldn't it be nice if the city offices joined the 21st century?
School board meeting should also be skyped. Let's get with it!
Why did the city pour new sidewalks that are TOO NARROW? Instead of going with the STANDARD 5 foot sidewalk, they skimped and did 4 feet instead. There is plenty of room for a 5 foot sidewalk, and yet they didn't think of what might be best for the city. Stupid.
There were reasons for the sidewalk design. Call the city engineer and ask your question rather than spout off about it. Get your facts!
Of course there was a "reason" for pouring narrow sidewalks, whatever the "reason" is is bogus. Here we as a community are trying to revitalize our downtown and the geniuses who work for the city decide to put in narrow sidewalks. NOT tourist friendly, NOT local friendly, simply NOT a good idea. And yet they will be pouring 5 foot sidewalks down Lake Street because people advocated for it. Explain to me why they need a 5 foot sidewalk on Lake (to Illinois) when 4 foot sidewalks in our downtown is apparently suitable. Ass backwards thinking if you ask me. And yes, I can spout if I want to, that's what blogs are for.
My spouse and I moved to Green Lake several years ago, but have been too busy fixing up our new home to enjoy the lake much. So we decided to take our canoe out the other evening and enjoy the late afternoon weather. We stayed near the shore, naturally, but were still challenged by the waves created by the boat traffic. This is all well and good except for the fact that the boats were intentionally whizzing by close to our canoe and laughing at us. We nearly capsized several times. These were not young kids doing this either, but grown adults in very expensive looking boats. Is this some sort of game that you lake people play called Terrorize the Canoers?
The folks on their piers looked at us in disdain when we paddled by their places, like what are you doing on our lake? We were being quiet and respectful, I simply do not understand why we were treated so rudely. We can't really canoe on the mill pond, as it is over-run with weeds and starting to develop it's distinct summer stench.
If this is how tourists are treated, then no wonder Green Lake is nearly dead.
A lot of issues to voice an opinion on.
I agree, tear down the courthouse and bring a beautiful park to the center of town. I said long ago the court house is just going to be a burden and financial drain on city finances and become an eye sore over time. If a historic landmark becomes a financial problem for the responsible party, it can be torn down. The govt cannot force you to maintain it. The County has already set precedent that it was to expensive to repair or keep. A casino would do nothing but make money for the casino and suck cash out of local businesses. It’s a really bad idea.
What a great view from Hill Street down to the dam and playground park it would be with the building gone. Deacon Mills Park is often too small for concerts and other events. You could move that nice gazebo from the tennis court area over to the park so it can be appreciated and enjoyed.
Glen McCarty is doing a fine job. All of you who want to question every decision and assume they were all made by a bunch of idiots; you just need to get a life. Sure, the road and sewer work has been a frustration, but ignoring the problem forever isn't a good solution, and its work that can't be done in the winter time. The sidewalk looks great. Did you voice all these ideas ahead of time at city meetings. As they say... "once it's cast in stone".
Green Lake is not a friendly canoe lake, never has been, never will be. It is nice to canoe late at night during a full moon. Take a bright flashlight so the late night boaters don't run you over and stay close to shore. Also, try canoeing back in the bays where many boaters don't go. Don't canoe during the day out onto the lake
THANK YOU, Mr Werner!!! How nice it is to read your post and realize there ARE nice, positive people in Green Lake!!
I was sad to hear of the passing of Jackson Taylor on Wednesday. He was a great guy. Rest is peace, Jack.
Hey Chief, We need more topics to discuss on this site!
Here's a topic for you:
January 3rd, 2007 was the day the Democrats took over the Senate and the Congress:
At the time:
The DOW Jones closed at 12,621.77...
The GDP for the previous quarter was 3.5%
The Unemployment rate was 4.6%
George Bush's Economic policies SET A RECORD of 52 STRAIGHT MONTHS of JOB CREATION!
Remember the day...
January 3rd, 2007 was the day that Barney Frank took over the House Financial Services Committee and Chris Dodd took over the Senate Banking Committee.
The economic meltdown that happened 15 months later was in what part of the economy?
BANKING AND FINANCIAL SERVICES!!!
THANK YOU DEMOCRATS for taking us from 13,000 DOW, 3.5 GDP and 4.6% Unemployment... to this CRISIS by (among MANY other things) dumping 5-6 TRILLION Dollars of toxic loans on the economy from YOUR Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac ! (BTW: Bush asked Congress 17 TIMES to stop Fannie & Freddie - starting in 2001 because it was Financially risky for the US economy):
And who took the THIRD highest pay-off from Fannie Mae AND Freddie Mac????
Obama.
Interested in knowing - where did you get the figures and what are the factual figures about Obama being the third highest benefactor? Also interested - who are the top two? Thank you.
I think the idea of a park to replace the court house is a good idea. We'll be paying for this new justice center out on A for years to come. Historic or not, it could come down, and the area could enhance the view of the water. It could be a place for shop owners to gravitate around, and events to be planned in, that could draw more visitors. Cutting a lawn and keeping up gazebos's and benches is far less costly than maintaining a 100 year old building. Best part... you never have to heat or air condition a park.
I agree the idea of a park in center of town is great. However, who would pay for tearing down the court house buildings? Not an inexpensive deal.
Everyone around here worries about what things cost but they are not concerned about spending money! That new courthouse is and was payed for by the tourism dollars spent in this county over the last 12 and next 12 years. Now it is time for this county to give back to the tourists. The old courthouse should be turned into a historical center to house all the wonderful and unique history of Green Lake county. This county seems to turn it's head away from it's history. Other counties would love to have a history like Green Lake. As far as upkeep, I think that the county has it's thumb on the scale when it shoots out upkeep numbers on that building. Besides they can give the center to the city and continue to maintain it with all the extra money they are saving on the new courthouse project. Do you really believe that a county of 19,000 is paying for that new center? We know where that money is coming from. Also once the historical center is open you can charge the tourists to enter and get more money to upkeep it. We are not represented enough in this county with history. The historical buildings in Green Lake are gifts that are seldomly open and the library is a gift. Time for the city and county to give back. Or are we just beggars and we will continue to be beggars.
Give it to the City? The County would not have to pay to maintain it. The City would at a cost of $300,000 per year. Get real. I do not want my city taxes paying to maintain this building. If the City gets it, no tax revenue comes in. If another entity gets it, at least the City would get tax revenue.
The county has already budgeted money to tear down the jail and the annex, if they choose to do so.
300,000.00 to maintain this building is BS. That is the cost of operation on a full time basis as a county courthouse facility and the numbers are enhanced for government purposes. As an empty complex used in minimal ways that number drops dramatically. Also there are many other ways to raise money for this building usage. As in grants, like what is said from our leader --you know we have many free grant writers at our school just waiting for someone to help with their services(HA-HA) to Mr.full of himself.
Those of you who believe that a historical museum would bring money to Green Lake, you are dreaming. We have a nice historical society that is now free to visit, guess how many tourists are interested? Just what glorious artifacts are there to fill a huge building with? We already have them on display and nobody bothers to go see them. (very few).
The courthouse building needs MAJOR work, very expensive and surely more problematic (and more expensive) once they would begin. These types of buildings are money pits. The city should not touch this place with a hundred foot pole.
Tear it down, build a beautiful park that the TOURISTS and locals would utilize and enjoy, the Festivals would benefit, the merchants would benefit, it would be a win-win situation. TEAR IT DOWN!
People need to realize that grants come from taxpayer money. I personally am sick of every organization and group sucking on the teat of society. People are so naive that they think this is FREE money! No wonder our nation is $14 TRILLION DOLLARS in debt. The idea of keeping the courthouse, renovating it and then heating it all winter so that 25 people a year can come and look at Chief Highknocker's portrait is ludicrous. (sorry Chief, but it's true.) Stop your porkulous way of thinking and let's move forward sensibly as a community. The courthouse should be torn down. People come to Green Lake to be outside, so let's build a park and enjoy nature together.
You said it well...people come to Green Lake to be outside and enjoy the natural beauty. I've seen some great parks in other cities and they are used often as the center of attention in creating events and gatherings. Let's make Green Lake more beautiful and have a nice park downtown that enhances that area.
This is a great blog thread concerning the city of Green Lake. My family has vacationed in the area since the late '60's and as a youth I made a pledge to someday move to Green Lake. In 2001 that dream became a reality: I have always respected the natural rural setting that has attracted tourists over the years and endeavored to preserve and enhance their availability. While living there for six years I was active in City government and several not-for-profit organizations. My experience has shown me that there are two distinct categories that 'concerned' individuals fall into: those that wish to retain the rural setting and country living aspects of the city, and those that wish to change things. I always found it amusing that those who so wish to change and "grow" admit readily that they came to Green Lake because of its rural setting and slower pace of live ("Quality of Life"?)So why change it? Upon examination this usually leads to a goal of financial exploitation. Haven't we learned anything from what's happened to our national debt and Wall Street's greed? Green Lake is a microcosm. It's such a shame that we cannot find some agreement on long term values for the city.
I am encouraged by the discussion here on what to do with the Courthouse. Yes, its a waste of taxpayers money to keep it if it is not being utilized fully. The county should tear it down and then sell or donate the lot to the city. As for revitalizing the city proper, the movement of so much business to county A has drained the city of its old life blood. Now we must come together to analyse what is more permanent and build a future upon that. Forget the casino, that is only a sellout to making easy money. The end result would be greater costs and a distinct decline in the quality of life for residents. I can tell you from personal experience in Illinois what a casino does to a community - it destroys it and only profits those people who are directly connected with the casino - invariably leading to political corruption in the pursuit of money.
As for the sidewalk issue, yes, it does seem questionable on how it was designed and completed, but, let's at least give some credit to the city for trying! There have been several revitalization plans for the city over the years and interested residents show examine the plan drawn up in the late 1980's (i believe). If the Courthouse is levelled, this plan could be made a reality implementing its advise to widen the streets to boulevards and make the sidewalks inviting to shoppers and tourists. Why reinvent the wheel? For those who believe Green Lake should mold itself after the likes of the Dells or Lake Geneva, why compete with them? Instead offer something unique and different. The business prospects would be greater and more sustainable. The small town, slower pace is very attractive and something that is all but disappearing across the nation. If it can be preserved, it will be a high demand commodity. Study the development of Chautauqua, NY. It is a similar small town that found and exploited its niche. They focused on their unique traits and developed a game plan that works and has very little competition. Once a city or town is "developed" it never returns to that small town state. Believe me, a small town community is worth preserving. What is it worth to you?
Good Luck Green Lake.
This is a great blog thread concerning the city of Green Lake. My family has vacationed in the area since the late '60's and as a youth I made a pledge to someday move to Green Lake. In 2001 that dream became a reality: I have always respected the natural rural setting that has attracted tourists over the years and endeavored to preserve and enhance their availability. While living there for six years I was active in City government and several not-for-profit organizations. My experience has shown me that there are two distinct categories that 'concerned' individuals fall into: those that wish to retain the rural setting and country living aspects of the city, and those that wish to change things. I always found it amusing that those who so wish to change and "grow" admit readily that they came to Green Lake because of its rural setting and slower pace of live ("Quality of Life"?)So why change it? Upon examination this usually leads to a goal of financial exploitation. Haven't we learned anything from what's happened to our national debt and Wall Street's greed? Green Lake is a microcosm. It's such a shame that we cannot find some agreement on long term values for the city.
I am encouraged by the discussion here on what to do with the Courthouse. Yes, its a waste of taxpayers money to keep it if it is not being utilized fully. The county should tear it down and then sell or donate the lot to the city. As for revitalizing the city proper, the movement of so much business to county A has drained the city of its old life blood. Now we must come together to analyse what is more permanent and build a future upon that. Forget the casino, that is only a sellout to making easy money. The end result would be greater costs and a distinct decline in the quality of life for residents. I can tell you from personal experience in Illinois what a casino does to a community - it destroys it and only profits those people who are directly connected with the casino - invariably leading to political corruption in the pursuit of money.
As for the sidewalk issue, yes, it does seem questionable on how it was designed and completed, but, let's at least give some credit to the city for trying! There have been several revitalization plans for the city over the years and interested residents show examine the plan drawn up in the late 1980's (i believe). If the Courthouse is levelled, this plan could be made a reality implementing its advise to widen the streets to boulevards and make the sidewalks inviting to shoppers and tourists. Why reinvent the wheel? For those who believe Green Lake should mold itself after the likes of the Dells or Lake Geneva, why compete with them? Instead offer something unique and different. The business prospects would be greater and more sustainable. The small town, slower pace is very attractive and something that is all but disappearing across the nation. If it can be preserved, it will be a high demand commodity. Study the development of Chautauqua, NY. It is a similar small town that found and exploited its niche. They focused on their unique traits and developed a game plan that works and has very little competition. Once a city or town is "developed" it never returns to that small town state. Believe me, a small town community is worth preserving. What is it worth to you?
Good Luck Green Lake.
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